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 Discipline in schools

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speedgunner
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PostSubject: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:20 am

I have just read in the "
Daily Mail"
an artical about a teacher being given community service for tapping a boy on the head with a folder for talkiing during a drama class.Pull up a sand bag! When I was as at school just after the "
Ice age"
violence and assault was on offer by teachers and the head master on a regular basis throughout the school day. These punishments ranged from a tap on the head to a well aimed black board rubber culmanating to six of the best from the headmaster with his trusty cane.Now it didn't do me any harm but I don't condone that sort of punishment either. However the discipline in schools in the UK has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.

The boy who was tapped on the head admitted to the Magistrate that it did not hurt, but oh no that is assault by todays standards! Now the punishment given out when I was a boy was assault and not a ticking off. It seems that being made aware of your behaviour as in the case of the drama teacher and assault are far removed from each other.The Magistate needs to be aware of this issue as clearly the judgement was impaired when passing sentence,The Magistrate needs to go to America and visit the schools there where the inmates have taken over the assylum before he makes judgements like that. Because if this situation remains the discipline in the UK schools will fall subject to this condition!

In summary I believe that discipline should be dealt with in the home and not by the teachers who are open to abuse by the pupils.I am disgusted by the way that the discipline in schools are now in favour of the pupils and the parents shoulder no blame for the behavior of their off spring and expect the teachers to discipline them and when they do they take the teachers to book!
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silky4015
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:18 am

Hi there speedgunner, your comments made me think of a poem I wrote in 1991, which truly highlights the last stanza.

John

MANNERS

E When I were a lad
I’d spark m’ clogs each day,
Walking off to school
Merrily on my way.

Teachers’ taught us lessons,
Learning to read and write.
Not only maths and English
But what was wrong and right.

Saying please and thank you
Using social etiquette
This lesson is not taught today
Society will regret!
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chrisbriggs
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:33 am

Speedy, did you go to the same school as me??? Lol You also have to question the parents who have obviously sanctioned this complaint of assault and pushed for it to go ahead. Maybe they have Pound signs in their eyes. Ray
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tonyb60
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:02 am

Having worked at a school in recent years I so understand how frustrating it is for the teachers,that the PC brigade have stopped all kinds of punishment in schools. What a bad day for education this was.

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speedgunner
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:27 am

Yep I am sure many of you suffered the same draconian discipline that I and my school mates suffered and all your misgivings were recorded and presented in your school reports so double the punishment!Liked the poem as it says it all! But as I said before the level of discipline in schools today is administered to the teaching staff as opposed to the pupils which is wrong but no one seems to be prepared to do anything about it in case they upset someone! I as a grown up and a policeman found myself in front of my Chief Inspector on occasion for "
Mission creep"
as I would tell the youth in no uncertain terms what their misgivings were with their behaviour and their driving skills.I think it was the "
in no uncertain terms"
was my problem.It seems that even if you are in authority like a teacher or a policeman there is a resentment from some members of the public and will report you at every oppertunity. I am sure Ray knows what I am talking about when you have to be whiter than white as a policeman or someone in authoriity as you are an easy target unfortunately these days.
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starlite
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:12 pm

there is sadly a lack of respect in todays society, if a teacher has no means of control and fears the consequences of control, then they cannot do their job.
there is little respect for police these days, they deal time and time again with the same offenders who are then let off by the courts.
an uneducated and lawless society is rather scary.
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Chris
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:36 pm

I have to agree with most of what's been said in this thread.

I occasionally had a caning or 'slipper' at school, but can't moan about it as I probably well deserved it!

I also miss the 'local bobby' giving me a clip round the ear if I was up to no good ... in my book, that was a much easier let-off than him taking me home and telling my parents I'd been up to no good!

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Carmen
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:40 pm

I was a teacher in the UK state system for over 13 years and I can tell you that parents who prized and valued education were the exception. Respect for education and respect for authority are endemic in East Asian cultures. This is a huge factor in their academic success. The teachers have been getting kicked about since the mid-eighties. How about getting tough with slack parents?
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Brian1
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:50 pm

We have to accept that children from disadvantaged backgrounds are disadvantaged well before they step into a classroom and no amount of liberal hand wringing will alter that, and nor will making things easier for them and fast tracking them to schools they will fail to profit from, either. They will simply lose any vestiges of respect they had and learn to play the victim card. I am afraid that the one institution that has traditionally managed to turn such people into useful members of a society is the Army. Cut off from their natural peer group and subjected to unrelenting and inescapable discipline, they learn, haltingly and with difficulty, how to achieve. Even if its no more than polishing a pair of boots. In short we know what works in various cases: the tragedy is that ideology prevents us from applying the necessary measures. I remember my sister surviving just one year trying to teach French in a Liverpool comprehensive. Then she moved to France and never lived in the UK again. "
I want to teach people who want to learn or whose parents will thrash the living daylights out of them if they don', where I am respected for what I know and my car is not vandalized every three weeks"
I suppose she COULD have taught at a private school, but her leftish leanings prevented that. A school or teacher in a reasonably 'middle class aspirational' area will not need to exert the discipline that already exists at home, or sell the idea of the usefulness of education whose parents' status and income are already a tribute to it. That is absolutely NOT the case in an urban school whose catchment area is from a high level of unemployed, and probably unemployable parents, single or otherwise. Before any education can take place, the children have to be brought to the position of wanting it, or at least grudgingly accepting that it has something to offer, and the alternative to attending is worse. I do not have the answer to that, but if a cane helps, use it. We should not rule out practical measures based solely on an ideological class horror of punishment nor some woolly minded feeling that children cant be held responsible, and therefore shouldn't be punished: That is simply dealt with. Punishment is not about doing something bad as some eye for an eye retaliation for someone having done something bad. That way lies an infinite series of vendettas. Punishment is about capturing the child's attention in order to teach him a lesson that he otherwise is not interested in learning: If that lesson has to be that making life difficult for others hurts, then so be it. My first headmaster used to slap a ruler on his desk. the sound alone was enough to introduce a hush, and then 'And now I have your attention, I consider him to have been a first rate teacher. My sisters have nothing but memories of being scared of him and consider to this day he was useless! There is no such thing as a good teacher or a good school for all types of children. We need a range. Not just grammar/technical/secondary modern but a panoply of different approaches all selectable by parental choice, in the hope that any given child will get slightly better than pot luck in finding the environment in which they will prosper.
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tonyb60
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PostSubject: Re: Discipline in schools   Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:12 pm

Again I must say that we can blame the PC brigade for the discipline problems in schools. Having worked for over 17 years in a Companies training school as an Instructor (hands on ) and a lecturer. I can honestly say that the vast majority of our students wanted to learn as it was in their interest to do so. The real taste of failure could have been dismissal from the company on the basis if you cant do the job your of no use .

We once made the mistake of taking on YTS people :: . They were of a different bread and some were quite scary . But once they learnt that if they did not behave they were shown the door and back in that dole queue they respected what we were trying to do. Some became good engineers others fell by the way side. But it was obvious to us that these people had not been taught basic manners and that they should respect those that are their betters. But in truth respect needs to be earned it is not a God given right.

Once I retired I worked part time in a Grammer school in a non teaching role and again most of the students were well behaved. But the old head mistress was of the old school, they were allowed one mistake otherwise they were out. In her book the PC brigade did not exist and she was the boss, and her rules applied to the teaching staff as well. Discipline started and stopped at her office .

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